(no subject)

[vriad_lee]

just a link, okay, a humble attempt to incite racial slurs and discussions. stolen from cathay_stray

Wafa Sultan: ... We have not seen a single Jew destroy a church. We have not seen a single Jew protest by killing people. The Muslims have turned three Buddha statues into rubble. We have not seen a single Buddhist burn down a Mosque, kill a Muslim, or burn down an embassy. Only the Muslims defend their beliefs by burning down churches, killing people, and destroying embassies. This path will not yield any results. The Muslims must ask themselves what they can do for humankind, before they demand that humankind respect them.

Comments

[mass-repeat.livejournal.com]

Even though if I were to affirm that here in liberal crazy San Francisco, I'd probably get beaten up...

It's absolutely true, IMO. Granted, my bias is obvious (Israeli), but. People keep talking about how Islam is such a "peaceful religion". How we have to "respect their beliefs." Well, they certainly don't give a shit about respecting ours!

Look in most any Arab newspaper, you'll find downright disgusting cartoons of Jews every day. Do we go and incite worldwide riots and kill people, all over a CARTOON? No. I mean, the list goes on, but I have to go to bed.. :(

Sad topic, really.

[mass-repeat.livejournal.com]

Although it's a fallacy to say that Islam has contributed NOTHING to civilization. In many senses, the Arabs are responsible for the civilization we enjoy today. The Renaissance wouldn't have ever happened had it not been for Muslim scholars who preserved classical texts. During the Dark Ages, while us Europeans were basically living in piles of our own shit and dying by the boatload, Arabs were improving medical techniques and studying in universities. And let's not forget, hey. Fertile Crescent!


Shame they couldn't KEEP that civilization, though ...

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

what makes me wonder is, maybe islam isn't that homogeneous. probably there are different trends in islam, different authorities, etc, but we notice only suicide bombers, for evident reasons? as usual, i'm very uninformed, but when people argue that qur'an itself is violent, so muslims are violent by definition - it seems strange. first, because, as you said, there used to be a golden age of islam, when muslims let jews be and let christians be, while jews and muslims were forced to convert in christian countries. second, isn't there violence in torah? i remember reading about jews killing some 70 000 enemies in a few days' massacre. what's that story, you should know? when they asked god to let them kill for a day (or a week?), but didn't managed to kill everyone they wanted and asked for more time? and third, while there is little violence in the gospel, it didn't somehow stop christians from crusades, forced conversions and stuff like that? so maybe peaceful islam is possibe, after all? maybe it's about the current state of most muslim countries that makes them adopt aggressive forms of islam? what do you think?

[stillcarl.livejournal.com]

what makes me wonder is, maybe islam isn't that homogeneous. probably there are different trends in islam, different authorities

Indeed, with Sunni and Shia being the most obvious division. Christians are supposed to turn the other cheek, but it didn't stop Catholics and Protestants fighting in Northern Ireland, did it?

The real issue between Jews and Moslems is land, same as it was in Ireland. Israel as a country didn't exist until 1948 and new countries have birthing-pains, given they're generally imposed on some people who didn't ask for them. (Note the Iranian PM's supposed comment was to whipe Israel off the map, and not Jews off the map - it's not the same thing. And that the biggest concentration of Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel is in Iran, which suggests they're not that anti-Jew there.)

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

i didn't know that there were many jews living in arab countries, at least in countries like iran. i thought i read about mass emigration of jews from arab countries during the years of israeli conflict, and that the scale of that emigration is comparable to arab emigration from palestine (but i'm not sure i got all the facts correctly).

anyway, i don't see how anyone (except muslim terrorists) can talk about wiping off the whole state of israel seriously - the occupied territories is one thing, but by the time israel came to be there were enough jews to establish something or other. if you wipe off the state of israel, what do you get, 5 000 000 jews living under some sort of hamas government? how do you see that? also,


In 1947, following increasing levels of violence by Jewish militant groups together with unsuccessful efforts to reconcile the Jewish and Arab populations, the British government decided to withdraw from the Palestine Mandate. The UN General Assembly approved the 1947 UN Partition Plan dividing the territory into two states, Jewish and Arab. The Jewish area having roughly 55% of the land, and Arab roughly 45%. Jerusalem was planned to be an international region administered by the UN to avoid conflict over its status. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel)

[stillcarl.livejournal.com]

Well, only 20,400 Jews in Iran...

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/jewpop.html

but that's certainly more than in Afghastan! And no other Middle Eastern country seem to have more than "100".

No, it's not realistic to expect Israel to disappear now, but it's easy enough to understand why some should believe it shouldn't exist, given it's a recently created country.

[starshoj.livejournal.com]

Moslem hatred of jews existed long time before 1948. The first recorded pogrom in Jerusalem was in 1834, mass muders and rapes followed Balfour Declaration. The first Arab riots of the Mandate period took place in Jerusalem in the intermediary days of Passover, in March 1920 ("Bloody Passover"). The grand mufti Al-Husseini represented proponents of militant, Palestinian Arab nationalism. Once he was in power, he began a campaign of terror and intimidation against anyone opposed to his rule and policies. He killed Jews at every opportunity, but also eliminated Arabs who did not support his campaign of violence. In 1929, major Arab riots were instigated against the Jews of Palestine. They began when al-Husseini falsely accused Jews of defiling and endangering local mosques, including al-Aqsa. The call went out to the Arab masses: "Izbah Al-Yahud!" — "Slaughter the Jews!" After the killing of Jews in Hebron, the Mufti disseminated photographs of slaughtered Jews with the claim that the dead were Arabs killed by Jews. According to documentation from the Nuremberg and Eichmann trials, the Nazi Germany SS helped finance al-Husseini's efforts in the 1936-39 revolt in Palestine. Adolf Eichmann actually visited Palestine and met with al-Husseini at that time and subsequently maintained regular contact with him later in Berlin.

In 1940, al-Husseini requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right:

"... to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy."

While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler's special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS "mountain divisions" that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.

At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal) testified:

"The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. ... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures. I heard him say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito the gas chamber of Auschwitz."

With the collapse of Nazi Germany in 1945, the Mufti moved to Egypt where he was received as a national hero.

Haj Amin al-Husseini eventually died in 1974. His place as leader of the radical, nationalist Palestinian Arabs was taken by his nephew Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini, better known as Yasser Arafat.

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

ok, that's some interesting info - i didn't know about al-Husseini. but what's your point? jewish population in palestine increased from something like 40 000 in the late 19th century to something like 600 000 by the time israel was established. of course there were arab riots, that's only to be expected, right?

[atruestory.livejournal.com]

what makes me wonder is, maybe islam isn't that homogeneous. probably there are different trends in islam, different authorities, etc, but we notice only suicide bombers, for evident reasons?

Yes. Islam isn't homogeneous. Sort of like you know, other religious groups aren't all that homogeneous.

I want to espouse more but am going to art show instead

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

maybe you espouse more later. art show sounds like more fun anyhow!

yes of course nothing is homogeneous. it's just that i see people make that point often. that qur'an is aggressive, kill the infidels et cetera, so islam is inherently aggressive. et cetera

[atruestory.livejournal.com]

yes yes, I was agreeing

I had that argument that the Qur'an is aggressive. Aren't all religious books rather bloody and aggressive, at least in some parts? It seems like a fairly blind argument.

[stillcarl.livejournal.com]

The Muslims could give mankind lots and lots of oil! Oh, they're already doing that...

And I suspect Jews have protested by killing people.

Also, I would like to point out I haven't noticed any Muslim nation invading countries on the opposite side of the world from them in recent years.

"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind."

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

And I suspect Jews have protested by killing people.

tell me mopre about that! although anyway, it would be a different thing, because the scale matters et cetera

Also, I would like to point out I haven't noticed any Muslim nation invading countries on the opposite side of the world from them in recent years.

but they can't. if they could, maybe they would? although of course i think that iraq invasion was the biggest gift muslim fundamentalists could dream of, ever

[stillcarl.livejournal.com]

tell me mopre about that!

I think there's way more Palestinian deaths in the Israel/Palestinian conflict than there are Israeli deaths, though that's just from memory.

but they can't. if they could, maybe they would?

Maybe, but maybe the reason that none of them can is because they have no desire to?

Note that Saddam's Baathist Party was secular and so his invasion of Kuwait was not a case of a Muslim-run country invading another, and ditto for his war against Iran.

Oh, and Syria's another Baathist country.

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

I think there's way more Palestinian deaths in the Israel/Palestinian conflict than there are Israeli deaths, though that's just from memory

i was talking about terrorism specifically (i thought that was what you meant by 'Jews have protested by killing people')

Maybe, but maybe the reason that none of them can is because they have no desire to?

well! anything is possible, but that one is rather far-fetched. they can't because they can't, because they are not a military super-power like usa

[zipzilla.livejournal.com]

And I suspect Jews have protested by killing people.

I think sometimes the difference between what is considered terrorism and war is what side of the conflict you are on. The Palestinians want their land and they don't have a huge army so they blow things up. The Isrealis have tanks and destroy Palestinain houses with them.

It's the extremists on all sides that are bringing us all down. Extremist Christians in the U.S. started a war in Iraq. Extremist Muslims want to kill all Americans and Jews. Extremist Jews believe that the "holy land" is theirs as written by god and that no one else has a claim to it even though it is where all three of these major religions are based out of.

In the end, I think so much of it really has to do with big business and money and the people at the top just use religion and hate to fuel their wars that are in reality about who has power and cash.

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

It's the extremists on all sides that are bringing us all down

yes, basically, i totally agree. i wonder how popular this point of view is in usa?

[stillcarl.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'd agree with all of that. "Terrorists are losers. Winners don't need to hijack planes to blow up buildings - they have air-forces for that."

[lather2002.livejournal.com]

mmm . . . The Protocols Of Zionism . . .

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

ahh... ziggy stardust!

[lather2002.livejournal.com]

Vaporize them all and there will be no more problems with them. And it will also do wonders for the cause of population control here on this planet. There are over one billion of them. And the price of oil will plummet raising the standard of living for everyone ! LOLove.

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

i know you're talking about the western civilization

[lather2002.livejournal.com]

Hell NO ! I'm speaking of the Satanic Worshippers also known as Muslims.

[vriad-lee.livejournal.com]

but you are the Satanic Worshipper, because you're paranoid. and all Satanic Worshippers are paranoid, ask anybody

[lather2002.livejournal.com]

I am not paranoid. I simply think we should end this bullshit with them (Muslims) once and for all. The Final Solution, their complete and utter annihilation !