Do you really mean less self-conscious (embarrassed) in moral matters? Or do you perhaps mean less conscious (aware and self-critical) in moral matters? If the latter, then of course I agree with you :)
Well, of course Mother Teresa was a saint, probably. And I would not want to offend all those who love and admire her. Indeed, I do myself. I even met her here in Moscow. But the thing is that if one person is constantly monopolising the role of the angel, that only leaves the role of the devil for the other person. It's a kind of spiritual greed. In the case of people who are especially charitable, that only leaves the role of the victim, the beggar, the invalid for the other person. So in a sense, by doing too much good you deprive the other person of the chance to stand on their own feet and develop themselves. I know this myself from bitter experience. I think your first interpretation of Spark is certainly correct -- that the righteous become self-righteous and therefore stop seeing their own faults. But I think there is also this second level of meaning. At least for me, it is there. Which Spark books have you read? You are certainly a very bright spark yourself and your knowledge of English literature is impressive :)
this is from 'the fathers' daughters', a short story, but i've read most of her books. she's one of my favourite writers. but otherwise, i'm not a well-read person, especially in english literature :) i know very little about teresa, but this thing i just read is pretty shocking, isn't it:
Teresa also campaigned against divorce, which she understood to be an immoral abomination in accordance with the teaching of her faith, insisting it should be made illegal; she organized an unsuccessful campaign to keep the Irish ban on divorce in 1996. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa%2C_Mother)
Shit, she could be quite scary, couldn't she? Same as the much loved Pope John Paul II, who almost single-handedly brought down Communism (Polish Solidarity made the first crack in the wall) but at the same time is considered by many to be responsible for the AIDS epidemic, because he wouldn't countenance condoms. In my opinion, the bigger the personality, the bigger their dark side. What do you think? Have you read Momento Mori? That's my favourite Spark book. We did it at school.
on the other hand, if he started to countenance condoms, what sort of pope would he be? :) yes, i've read memento mori, but i think my favourites are 'loitering with intent', 'not to disturb', and probably 'the ballad of peckham rye'.
Wow, you are quite a Spark expert. Did you study her at college or is this personal taste? Where did you learn your English (and as I gather, your French)?
no, i didn't go to college, i learnt about her from my sister, who also taught me basic english when i was 18. but i don't know french, i only studied it for a few months many years ago. it would be fun to learn a completely different language though, because after all french is very much like english... btw, your russian is very good, you should get russian keyboard and learn spelling. if you need that, of course, as errors that foreigners make are rather endearing. there was a friend from usa who said учЁники instead of учЁные, that was very cute!
That's really amazing because your written English appears to be nearly native- standard, except for a few very minor and understandable mistakes (eg. most recently "self-conscious" and that's a tricky one). You have also obviously read a lot. I wonder how you speak? My situation is probably the mirror opposite. I learnt to speak en famille, first feeling like a useless piece of furniture, then picking up my husband's obscenities like a parrot and only gradually becoming literate (hem, hem, now I probably have the literacy level of an eight-year-old Russian child) A part of me would like to write properly but a part of me really can't be bothered, because I know I will have to begin with really elementary things and yes, my mistakes are endearing, aren't they? That's how I delude myself. My first mistake was mixing pIsat and pisAt and I think my husband allowed me to go on being confused about that for years while everyone quietly laughed at me. Also, still can't hear the difference between ugol (corner) and ugol (coal) :) PS exactly how would you translate une petite pisseuse de copie?
yes, the mirror opposite! i can speak at least, but it's really hard for me to understand spoken english. i watch leage of gents now, and i just can't make out some lines no matter how many times i listen on repeat, then i read the script, listen again and still can't get individual words! but that doesn't happen often, and usually with specific characters only like mikilow or what's his name. of course i also happen to not know some of the words and expressions, so i usually miss much of the dialogues when i watch movies in original. in fact, it shouldn't take you long to learn how to write properly in russian, all you need is to take dictations now and then. from my experience, that's a very fast way to cure spelling errors. also, yeah, such mistakes are endearing, that's a fact! Л in 'уголь' is like L in 'leak', and Л in 'угол' is like L in 'look', that's simple! :) in the written form, Ь (мягкий знак, soft sign) is responsible for the difference. 'pisseuse de copie' is also, incidentally, from a m.spark's book, that's a french expression, she translates it as 'urinator of literary matter', ie a very bad writer.
Ha, ha, ha, LOL at literary urinator! Thanks for the tips, perhaps we can help each other in some way. Of course, to understand all the variations of spoken English, I guess you do need to travel and to mix a bit. So here we are, back with the topic we were tossing around the other day. (I notice you went quiet on that.) But hey, I don't want to push you in any way. I could invite you to drink tea with me, indeed I would love to go out walking with you one day when I come to visit BB (bald bastard) in Balashikha, but knowing you, I'm afraid you'll say "vriad lee". And if so, that's cool too. I enjoy chatting this way :)
you mean the topic of travelling? i meant to answer that comment, but has been putting that off. i think that i would need to live for a long time in another country for that to make any sense to me in any way, not only the language, but everything, and that's difficult since i'm neither a career person nor a good mixer. when i think of going abroad i imagine it 19-c russian literature style. you know? just going somewhere one day, renting an apartment and living there for a few month, or a year, or a few years. but that's not going to be until i'm reach=probably never. as for your invitation, thank you, maybe one day i will be in the right condition for that. although, it's true, i don't like meeting people in person very much, i'm rather a social cripple. btw, have you seen лисья гора (the fox mountain) in balashikha? ask your boyfriend to take you there if you haven't. here are my photo posts about лисья гора: http://vriad-lee.livejournal.com/tag/fox+mountain i like how you refer to your friend! you could also call him BBB (Bald Bastard from Balashikha) :)
Хочу тье показать как я пишу по Русский но проблем даже не в орфографии, а просто все так медленно когда я тиккую по незнакомый клавиш poetomy budu pisat kak umeu i mozhet byt tebe zahochetsa popravit moi grammaticheski oshibki :)
As for travelling and meeting, I can say this: "There where you are awaited and wanted, you will always arrive on time."
Thanks very much for the link to the Fox Mountain. I had no idea about it. BBB lives in the new part of Balashikha, near Pole Chudes and he always takes me to the forest. He hates the litter. My English cousin visited and her comment was: "You are never far from broken bottles in Russia." Now BBB repeats this phrase endlessly. I like the fact that you find beauty in everything, even or maybe especially in the scruffy things.
Хочу тебе показать, как я пишу по-русски. Но проблема даже не в орфографии, а просто все так медленно, когда я стучу (but «тикаю» is endearing!) по незнакомым клавишам. Поэтому буду писать, как умею, и, может быть, тебе захочется поправить мои грамматические ошибки. yes, поле чудес is a different side of balashikha, i've been taking walks on the other side of щелковское шоссе recently. btw, not all forests are littered, it gets much better if you move further away from the towns. also btw, i used to take long walks in the woods last winter when it was -35C! i hate litter in the woods too, probably not as much as BBB, but still. and since i started to spam my posts, here are photos with 'garbage' tag: http://vriad-lee.livejournal.com/tag/garbage i will be glad to correct your russian if you wish, but you should let me know about my slips in english in return! because i noticed that people are reluctant to point out them for me, maybe that's because they also find them cute, i don't know.
It's a deal. I'm sick of being cute and cute as you are, I could polish you a little bit too. But do you mind if I go on writing Russian in Latin letters, for now, anyway? The reason is that I really am painfully slow on my Cyrillic keyboard (half the letters are eroded) while I can type like the wind, blindfold in Latin. No serious mistakes in the above. Just a little linguistic dandruff, as follows: Pole Chudes is ON a different side of B. Not all THE forests (because we have already discussed them) are littered To point THEM out TO me, not point out them for me Russian in English has a capital letter, although not, as I note, in Russian As for the garbage, the soft toys, shoes and coats are somehow touching, as in the photos you see after airline disasters etc. But the bottles polluting the water are simply disgusting. People are pigs, really. That's why I prefer animals, including pigs.
yes, of course, you can write russian in latin alphabet, although i have to say that's lame since you don't have all the letters there. thanks for the corrections. am i right in assuming that 'point them out FOR me' could mean 'point them out insted of me/on my behalf'? i write everything in lowercase, though, even mother teresa! it's interesting, but i've never thought of disasters while taking/looking at those pictures. somene said once that my photos of shoes remind them of rape. i find garbage pictures very peaceful myself.
I know, I'm a technological cripple but I may surprise you one day. Yes, you might say "could you point them out for me" if you have an armful of books and can't point yourself, so you get someone else to point for you. Lower case is in fact cool, journos all write in lower case 'cos they're lazy. I guess garbage might be peaceful, like graveyards, but your pictures are so vivid that they actually conjure up the smell as well. Yuk! I like all the rest, though :)
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(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-10 05:37 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-10 08:09 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-10 11:43 am (UTC)If the latter, then of course I agree with you :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-10 07:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 04:40 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-10 08:32 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-10 11:56 am (UTC)But the thing is that if one person is constantly monopolising the role of the angel, that only leaves the role of the devil for the other person. It's a kind of spiritual greed.
In the case of people who are especially charitable, that only leaves the role of the victim, the beggar, the invalid for the other person. So in a sense, by doing too much good you deprive the other person of the chance to stand on their own feet and develop themselves. I know this myself from bitter experience.
I think your first interpretation of Spark is certainly correct -- that the righteous become self-righteous and therefore stop seeing their own faults.
But I think there is also this second level of meaning. At least for me, it is there.
Which Spark books have you read?
You are certainly a very bright spark yourself and your knowledge of English literature is impressive :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-10 07:29 pm (UTC)i know very little about teresa, but this thing i just read is pretty shocking, isn't it:
Teresa also campaigned against divorce, which she understood to be an immoral abomination in accordance with the teaching of her faith, insisting it should be made illegal; she organized an unsuccessful campaign to keep the Irish ban on divorce in 1996. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teresa%2C_Mother)
one the other hand, what did i expect?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 04:38 am (UTC)Same as the much loved Pope John Paul II, who almost single-handedly brought down Communism (Polish Solidarity made the first crack in the wall) but at the same time is considered by many to be responsible for the AIDS epidemic, because he wouldn't countenance condoms.
In my opinion, the bigger the personality, the bigger their dark side. What do you think?
Have you read Momento Mori? That's my favourite Spark book. We did it at school.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 05:30 am (UTC)yes, i've read memento mori, but i think my favourites are 'loitering with intent', 'not to disturb', and probably 'the ballad of peckham rye'.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 05:46 am (UTC)Where did you learn your English (and as I gather, your French)?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 06:00 am (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 11:24 am (UTC)My situation is probably the mirror opposite. I learnt to speak en famille, first feeling like a useless piece of furniture, then picking up my husband's obscenities like a parrot and only gradually becoming literate (hem, hem, now I probably have the literacy level of an eight-year-old Russian child)
A part of me would like to write properly but a part of me really can't be bothered, because I know I will have to begin with really elementary things and yes, my mistakes are endearing, aren't they? That's how I delude myself.
My first mistake was mixing pIsat and pisAt and I think my husband allowed me to go on being confused about that for years while everyone quietly laughed at me.
Also, still can't hear the difference between ugol (corner) and ugol (coal) :)
PS exactly how would you translate une petite pisseuse de copie?
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 12:43 pm (UTC)in fact, it shouldn't take you long to learn how to write properly in russian, all you need is to take dictations now and then. from my experience, that's a very fast way to cure spelling errors.
also, yeah, such mistakes are endearing, that's a fact!
Л in 'уголь' is like L in 'leak', and Л in 'угол' is like L in 'look', that's simple! :) in the written form, Ь (мягкий знак, soft sign) is responsible for the difference.
'pisseuse de copie' is also, incidentally, from a m.spark's book, that's a french expression, she translates it as 'urinator of literary matter', ie a very bad writer.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 02:52 pm (UTC)Thanks for the tips, perhaps we can help each other in some way.
Of course, to understand all the variations of spoken English, I guess you do need to travel and to mix a bit. So here we are, back with the topic we were tossing around the other day. (I notice you went quiet on that.)
But hey, I don't want to push you in any way. I could invite you to drink tea with me, indeed I would love to go out walking with you one day when I come to visit BB (bald bastard) in Balashikha, but knowing you, I'm afraid you'll say "vriad lee". And if so, that's cool too. I enjoy chatting this way :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 03:21 pm (UTC)as for your invitation, thank you, maybe one day i will be in the right condition for that. although, it's true, i don't like meeting people in person very much, i'm rather a social cripple. btw, have you seen лисья гора (the fox mountain) in balashikha? ask your boyfriend to take you there if you haven't. here are my photo posts about лисья гора: http://vriad-lee.livejournal.com/tag/fox+mountain
i like how you refer to your friend! you could also call him BBB (Bald Bastard from Balashikha) :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 04:29 pm (UTC)poetomy budu pisat kak umeu i mozhet byt tebe zahochetsa popravit moi grammaticheski oshibki :)
As for travelling and meeting, I can say this:
"There where you are awaited and wanted, you will always arrive on time."
Thanks very much for the link to the Fox Mountain. I had no idea about it.
BBB lives in the new part of Balashikha, near Pole Chudes and he always takes me to the forest. He hates the litter. My English cousin visited and her comment was: "You are never far from broken bottles in Russia." Now BBB repeats this phrase endlessly. I like the fact that you find beauty in everything, even or maybe especially in the scruffy things.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 05:01 pm (UTC)Хочу тебе показать, как я пишу по-русски. Но проблема даже не в орфографии, а просто все так медленно, когда я стучу (but «тикаю» is endearing!) по незнакомым клавишам. Поэтому буду писать, как умею, и, может быть, тебе захочется поправить мои грамматические ошибки.
yes, поле чудес is a different side of balashikha, i've been taking walks on the other side of щелковское шоссе recently. btw, not all forests are littered, it gets much better if you move further away from the towns. also btw, i used to take long walks in the woods last winter when it was -35C! i hate litter in the woods too, probably not as much as BBB, but still. and since i started to spam my posts, here are photos with 'garbage' tag: http://vriad-lee.livejournal.com/tag/garbage
i will be glad to correct your russian if you wish, but you should let me know about my slips in english in return! because i noticed that people are reluctant to point out them for me, maybe that's because they also find them cute, i don't know.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 05:29 pm (UTC)No serious mistakes in the above. Just a little linguistic dandruff, as follows:
Pole Chudes is ON a different side of B.
Not all THE forests (because we have already discussed them) are littered
To point THEM out TO me, not point out them for me
Russian in English has a capital letter, although not, as I note, in Russian
As for the garbage, the soft toys, shoes and coats are somehow touching, as in the photos you see after airline disasters etc. But the bottles polluting the water are simply disgusting. People are pigs, really. That's why I prefer animals, including pigs.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 06:07 pm (UTC)thanks for the corrections. am i right in assuming that 'point them out FOR me' could mean 'point them out insted of me/on my behalf'?
i write everything in lowercase, though, even mother teresa!
it's interesting, but i've never thought of disasters while taking/looking at those pictures. somene said once that my photos of shoes remind them of rape. i find garbage pictures very peaceful myself.
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 06:15 pm (UTC)Yes, you might say "could you point them out for me" if you have an armful of books and can't point yourself, so you get someone else to point for you.
Lower case is in fact cool, journos all write in lower case 'cos they're lazy.
I guess garbage might be peaceful, like graveyards, but your pictures are so vivid that they actually conjure up the smell as well. Yuk! I like all the rest, though :)
(no subject)
Date: 2006-09-11 06:26 pm (UTC)